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 Post subject: Shop heat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:07 pm 
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OK, I've about had it. This morning we got a sharp rise in outside temps which results in a collection of condensation on everything in the unheated shop. Since it's insulated, the air in there doesn't come up to temps as fast as the outside plus there's the obvious lag between when all my cast iron acclimates as well. With the increase in outside temps, the humidity shoots up and thus the condensation. So ...

I'm really looking for a way to heat the shop. I do have a wood stove that works provided I get it fired up and the machinery warmed up before all this takes place. Which is never soon enough, of course. So right now everything, table saw, band saw, jointer, both lathes ... everything has been coated with WD40 which will have to be scrubbed off once things become equalized. I'm wondering what you folks would advise as a solution. The shop size is 24 x 40 so it's not a small area.

My first thought would be a propane fired heater hung from the ceiling with an outside tank. Of course this would obviate doing any high finishing that involves finishes with flammable vapors but that's a small price to pay to wait 'til I can turn the heater off.

Open to suggestions.

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:31 pm 
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I have found that if you lay a towel over anything you don't want to rust works quite well. Any humidity drops on the towel not the cast iron.

I put my equipment to bed every time I'm done for the day.

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Hey Dennis,

I still like radiant heaters, they heat surfaces, not the air. They are available for gas or electric and are very efficient in my experience.

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Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:12 am 
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I have two electric heaters (1 is an oil filled radiator type) both on wheels and have thermostats for constant use. I like to keep an ambient temp. in the shop.

Another point I would like to make. Be very careful with the WD40, it contains silicone which can affect the finish on wood (or anything for that matter) I just keep a coat of Minwax paste wax on all of my cast iron surfaces and have no problem using a rag to wipe off the moisture.

PS
Tom, When I worked in a sheet metal shop, we had 5 or 6 radiant heaters and you are right, they are very efficient.
However, when I ask an "expert" about getting one for my shop he talked me out of it. I'm not sure what his point was but, he really didn't want to sell me one!
Maybe the electrician was like the old plumbers were when I would ask about "tank-less" water heaters and they didn't want to install one for me. The new tank-less are more dependable, last longer and the plumber can't depend on replacing a water heater every 6 years. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:03 am 
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Rapid Roger wrote:
I have two electric heaters (1 is an oil filled radiator type) both on wheels and have thermostats for constant use. I like to keep an ambient temp. in the shop.


If you go this route, be sure to go "old school" with a knob to turn them on and off. If you go with the digital kind and the electric goes off, they don't come back on. You have to turn them back on. With the knob type, they come back on as if nothing happened when the electric comes back on.

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:41 pm 
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I heat my shops with wood or coal depending on the temps, you may not want to go that route but it works for me. I don't get condensation in the wood, only in my machine shop, perhaps because the wood shop is upstairs and machine shop is down.


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:50 pm 
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I have a two story 28 by 40 shop/garage. Wood working upstairs, metal working and garage downstairs.For heat I have a wood burning stove downstairs with about two tons of cement blocks /bricks around and above the stove. I have the blocks set up side ways around the stove heavy angle iron stretched over the stove resting on the blocks, and the bricks piled on the angle iron. I staggered the bricks so air flows through the bricks. This lets me build a fire through the day, and the bricks/blocks hold the heat over night. I have no problem keeping the shop in the fifties when it is in the teens or below outside.


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:04 pm 
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The idea that WD-40 contains silicone is very persistent, even though the company that makes it says there's no silicone in WD-40. See https://wd40.com/faqs

The WD-40 MSDS does not list silicone or polydimethylsiloxane, the most common type of silicone. https://wd40.com/files/pdf/msds-wd482671453.pdf From what I've found on the web, at one time the wikipedia page claimed silicones were present in WD-40, but that has been corrected and it no longer does.

I think it's safe to say that many people say WD-40 contains silicone, so many have heard that, but it's almost certainly not true. I wouldn't spray it on wood before finishing, but it's no worse than any light oil.

The WD-40 company makes other products, and one of those may contain silicones. Ah. They make one called "Water resistant silicone lubricant." I'll bet that one has silicones in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:17 am 
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Thanks for the detailed info on WD 40, Alan. I don't like using it other when we get these atmospheric conditions that promote the condensation mainly because once I go to remove it to use the tool(s) I find it's kinduva gummy coating. Not all that difficult to remove but not something I'd use as a lubricant.

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:44 am 
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Rather than WD-40, have you tried a coat of furniture wax? That does not protect from water as well as a coat of oil, but it does allow you to use the machines. And it may be enough to prevent rust, particularly if you combine it with a cloth spread over the machines as suggested before. The cloth should be very effective for machine tops, but is limited in protecting inside surfaces.


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:12 pm 
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I have used Boeshield T-9 for several years and it seams to work fairly well to prevent or limit rust. It is easer than and does a better job than paste wax but considerably more expensive.
If you paste wax, do not buff it and leave the haze on it does a better job of protection, until you want to use it.
For many years when my table saw was in an unheated attached garage i used a good automotive paste wax and never had a problem with the silicone*, it worked where a standard paste wax did not. But I have bowed to you all and do not use automotive wax and my current shop is heated.
Spray lacquer works on tools with no or very low use, again from the unheated garage experience, and is fairly easy to get off.

I use a small electric unit heater to keep my very well insulated freestanding shop 24' x 28' fairly warm (60 ish) in the cold and cooler months never letting the shop get to cold, the bill is about $60-80 a month. We have a slightly higher than average electric rates and it does get cold here most winters it will get below zero a few times.

Do Not Use an unvented gas (or other fuels) it will add to the consolidation problem in an insulated and sealed shop I found that out the hard way.

How well insulated is your shop and how well is it sealed? Insulation and sealing is cheaper than heat.

*Do not want to get off on that discussion! :OT:

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:36 am 
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Great response, DG. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:11 pm 
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my shop is about a 4 car garage size - i mounted a reznor propane fed heater in the corner from the joists - it's thermostat controlled - so when i'm not there i keep it about 52 - eliminates condensation.
uses an outside tank and does need xterior venting

a similar heater is the modine - moon dawg.

another benefit is that it is suspended so does not use any floor space.
jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:28 am 
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jcousins wrote:
my shop is about a 4 car garage size - i mounted a reznor propane fed heater in the corner from the joists - it's thermostat controlled - so when i'm not there i keep it about 52 - eliminates condensation.
uses an outside tank and does need xterior venting

a similar heater is the modine - moon dawg.

another benefit is that it is suspended so does not use any floor space.
jerry


Thanks for the reply, Jerry. I'm wondering though, doesn't a propane flame generate water vapor, thus raising the humidity in the shop? I gather there's also an open flame in the burner part??

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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 9:50 pm 
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>doesn't a propane flame generate water vapor, thus raising the humidity in the shop? I gather there's also an open flame in the burner part??

it might create some vapor but it all seems to vent to the outside - never have had a problem with humidity - and never have seen any condensation/residue on the large flat surface tools - which was real bad using a torpedo kerosene heater -
and never any issues with the ignition
jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Shop heat
PostPosted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:30 pm 
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DennisS wrote:
jcousins wrote:
my shop is about a 4 car garage size - i mounted a reznor propane fed heater in the corner from the joists - it's thermostat controlled - so when i'm not there i keep it about 52 - eliminates condensation.
uses an outside tank and does need xterior venting

a similar heater is the modine - moon dawg.

another benefit is that it is suspended so does not use any floor space.
jerry


Thanks for the reply, Jerry. I'm wondering though, doesn't a propane flame generate water vapor, thus raising the humidity in the shop? I gather there's also an open flame in the burner part??


All* of the Reznor heaters are vented out side. The best gas fired unit (hanging) heaters use outside combustion are and are sealed combustion this greatly reduces the fire risk caused by flammables used in the shop and prevents the dust from fouling the burners and heat exchanger as well as increasing the life of the heater.
Reznor is one brand there are many others, many of the home improvement stores carry them. Search " unit heater for garage "

*at least all I've seem in 30+ yrs of HVAC&R work

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