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 Post subject: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:05 pm 
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I have been making some different styles of naval cannon shot for display with my concrete 1841 six pounders.
I cast them out of lead and they have turned out pretty good.
These are actual examples of what original shot looked like in the 1700's.

These are called bar shot. They were designed to open up when in flight and cause extreme damage to sails and rigging.
The balls are for a 3" bore and weigh 4.8 lbs. each so a double shot comes in at a little over 10 lbs. including the attachment.
You have straight bar shot,
hinged bar shot,
expanding bar shot,
and chain shot.

Just some different examples to show the brutality of ship board warfare.

I have ordered a product that will chemically blacken the lead. I should receive it this week and will post the results.
Zulu


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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:44 am 
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Cool! Question: Would this kind of shot be contained in a sabot or similar when loaded? It seems something would be needed to properly seat the shot and prevent blow by.

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:39 am 
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Gene,
I have been asking that same question on a black powder cannon forum that I attend.

The consensus is that a sabot was used with single round balls. A sabots use with some of the bar shot would restrict the free swinging, spinning motion that makes these kinds of shot so effective against ship rigging and sails.

A great question!

In this case, my examples are only for a 3" bore.
That is the mold I have and is consistent with my concrete cannon bores.

I believe ship board guns would have been firing much larger shot such as 6 pounder, 9 pdr, 18 pdr, 24 pdr, 36 pdr, and up to even 42 pdr.
Can you imagine a pair of 24 pound iron balls,connected by a section of chain and powered by 2 or 3 pounds of black powder, swinging through the air amidst the vast amount of rigging, sails, spars, and masts that equip a large sailing vessel?

Naval warfare in the 1700's was not for the weak at heart.
A British Man O' War could carry as many as 100 guns!!!
A ship like that took a thousand English oak trees to build!

If anyone has any interest, here is a good link to a British ship.
They were the aircraft carriers of their day. Incredible power!

http://www.gunplot.net/main/content/bri ... th-century

Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:44 am 
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Zulu wrote:
Gene,
I have been asking that same question on a black powder cannon forum that I attend.

The consensus is that a sabot was used with single round balls. A sabots use with some of the bar shot would restrict the free swinging, spinning motion that makes these kinds of shot so effective against ship rigging and sails.

A great question!

In this case, my examples are only for a 3" bore.
That is the mold I have and is consistent with my concrete cannon bores.

I believe ship board guns would have been firing much larger shot such as 6 pounder, 9 pdr, 18 pdr, 24 pdr, 36 pdr, and up to even 42 pdr.
Can you imagine a pair of 24 pound iron balls,connected by a section of chain and powered by 2 or 3 pounds of black powder, swinging through the air amidst the vast amount of rigging, sails, spars, and masts that equip a large sailing vessel?

Naval warfare in the 1700's was not for the weak at heart.
A British Man O' War could carry as many as 100 guns!!!
A ship like that took a thousand English oak trees to build!

If anyone has any interest, here is a good link to a British ship.
They were the aircraft carriers of their day. Incredible power!

http://www.gunplot.net/main/content/bri ... th-century

Zulu


These were used with smoothbore, right? So there wouldn't be any spin imparted by the barrel. A sabot is designed to come off the slug (think shotgun) as soon as it leaves the barrel. Much like the shotpocket wads used in modern birdshot. I'd sure want something to keep it lined up, etc. Just guessing here, of course, but the old cannoneers weren't stupid. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Yes Gene, they were smooth bores. Rifled cannon really didn't make an appearance until the Civil War.

Here is a look at what I am trying to replicate.
Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:33 pm 
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Hey Zulu,

From what I've read, chain shot in particular makes a blood curdling shriek as it flies through the air, but that they each make a very distinctive sound.

I have only heard blanks, shot from a six pounder.

Cheers,
Tom

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:15 pm 
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Zulu wrote:
Yes Gene, they were smooth bores. Rifled cannon really didn't make an appearance until the Civil War.

Here is a look at what I am trying to replicate.
Zulu

Image


I'm pretty sure one of my ancestors would have been very familiar with these. Good old Capt. Zach was a merchant man that was inclined to running British blockades and dealing with pirates back in the day. :)

https://archive.org/details/autobiocaptzach00lamsrich

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 1:56 pm 
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I have just finished trying to age the shot a little.
I used a chemical compound that instantly turned the lead dark. This is what I used.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WH3SIE/re ... 4908.shtml

I used yellow mustard, salt and vinegar on the ironwork.
The hinged bar shot was painted before. I stripped the paint off before refinishing it.
Here is what they look like now. :-D

Zulu



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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:11 pm 
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Zulu wrote:
I have just finished trying to age the shot a little.
I used a chemical compound that instantly turned the lead dark. This is what I used.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003WH3SIE/re ... 4908.shtml

I used yellow mustard, salt and vinegar on the ironwork.
The hinged bar shot was painted before. I stripped the paint off before refinishing it.
Here is what they look like now. :-D

Zulu



Image

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Being an old Marine, I can't describe how much I'd hate being up in the rigging and on the receiving end of any of those. :shock:

Btw, do you happen to know what the muzzle velocity would have been with the bar shot or similar?

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Muzzle velocity? :confused: :confused:
I have no idea.
Too fast to out run it. :lol:
Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:05 pm 
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Zulu wrote:
Muzzle velocity? :confused: :confused:
I have no idea.
Too fast to out run it. :lol:
Zulu


True. I did some googling and came up with some numbers for a 12 pounder Napoleon. 1485fps,which was a little surprising. Of course the aerodynamics of a barshot are pretty bad so range would be somewhat less than round shot but I expect the muzzle velocity would be in that general range for your 10 pounder.

Bore Diameter: 4.62 inches
Standard Powder Charge: 2.5 lbs. Black Powder
Projectiles: 12 lb. solid shot, spherical case, common shell, cannister
Muzzle Velocity: 1,485 fps
Effective Range (at 5°): up to 1,619 yards

http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/12_pdr._%2 ... _Field_Gun

So doing the math for say a velocity at impact of 1000fps for 70,000 grain (10lbs ) projectile gives us 155,458 ftlbs of energy. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:32 am 
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Here is the latest for the display.
This is a "stand of grape".
In this case, the grape shot is 1" iron balls.
There are 15 of them.
When fired, the balls separated from the wooden sabot and scattered, inflicting horrific carnage on the enemy.
War is heqq!

The design is to fit a 3" bore, same as all the other shot shown in this thread.

Zulu


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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 10:22 am 
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Thanks Zulu !! Always learn something new from your posts !!

Skyrider


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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:04 am 
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As always, fascinating. Thanks Zulu.
eric


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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 10:25 am 
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Another cannon shot.
Made for a 3" bore.
This is a lead ball mounted to a sabot with copper straps.
I turned the sabot on my lathe.

This is the way round ball was fired during the war. A pre-made canvas bag of gun powder was secured to the sabot with a cord tie around the indentation. It was then loaded as one unit.
Zulu


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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:11 am 
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Getting ready to complete a big order.
Thought the pictures were cool and that I would share them.
Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Here is the rest of the cannon shot order.
Four grape shots. Fifteen 1 3/16" iron balls.
My customer plans to shoot all of this stuff from his cannon.
I'd like to see it!
Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:33 am 
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Zulu, I may have missed it, but what would have been the max rate of fire of these rounds - the sabot with the attached powder bag?

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:33 am 
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Gene,
They say that when your life depended on it, a cannon could be fired three times a minute.
It was also fairly common to double shot a gun. That would be a grape shot or canister round on top of a round ball.
Zulu

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 Post subject: Re: Cannon shot
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:43 pm 
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My customer flew in to Houston before Christmas just to pick up four cannon balls.
When I went to meet him today I said "this is a different plane". He said "yeah, I brought my other jet". :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

He wanted a picture of my truck in front of his jet. :lol:
Zulu

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