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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:14 pm 
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I'm hoping someone can suggest a good supplier for hinges... I did some searches, but I didn't find anything yet.

There are three doors, for kitchen cabinets, about 18X36 each.

The idea is to replace them with solid glass doors, because it will be nearly impossible to match the veneer on the rest of the cabinets.

I'm hoping to find some kind of hinges that won't require drilling holes in the glass, but it has to be european style hinges...

I know this isn't really a "woodworking" question, but since it's a cabinet, I'm hoping someone might have some input on this. Thanks in advance,

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:05 pm 
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JIM 2: Inset or overlay doors? Try http://www.sdslondon.co.uk/product/glas ... inset.html but note these are very pricey.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:25 pm 
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newtooth wrote:
JIM 2: Inset or overlay doors? Try http://www.sdslondon.co.uk/product/glas ... inset.html but note these are very pricey.

Right on, thanks for the quick reply newtooth! :thumbup:

It's for overlay doors, but I'll search that site...

Price matters, but it's not the only thing... Quality and ease of application counts for a lot too.

I think the doors have to be tempered glass because it's a kitchen cabinet, but I never tried to drill a hole in tempered glass. I have a few glass bits, but they only go up to 3/8" anyway. I can only imagine what it would cost to get holes drilled into tempered glass...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:37 pm 
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Jim2 wrote:
I think the doors have to be tempered glass because it's a kitchen cabinet, but I never tried to drill a hole in tempered glass. I have a few glass bits, but they only go up to 3/8" anyway. I can only imagine what it would cost to get holes drilled into tempered glass...


you can't drill tempered glass. It will shatter by design. I've seen a few allusions to waterjet cutting tempered glass, but most references say that it won't work (and I watched a great YouTube video showing it shattering the instant the jet hits it). You would have to have the holes cut before the glass is tempered. Your profile doesn't tell us where you live, so it's hard to guess how close you live to someplace that can temper glass.

The alternative is to make simple frames that are wide enough to bore the hinge holes and place the glass in the frames. These won't have to match the veneer of the other doors. You could even paint them a solid color (like black) so there's no suggestion you were trying to match the veneer.

Various web searches suggest that code does NOT require tempered glass in this situation. After all, you see kitchen cabs with all sorts of specialty fluted, seeded, and patterned glass that is not available as tempered or laminated safety glass. That said, it's still a good idea to use safety glass wherever possible.

You can probably get laminated glass cut on a waterjet. Even so, it's not clear to me how you mount the hinges since they are intended for a thicker material than the glass will be.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:27 am 
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drstrip wrote:
Jim2 wrote:
I think the doors have to be tempered glass because it's a kitchen cabinet, but I never tried to drill a hole in tempered glass. I have a few glass bits, but they only go up to 3/8" anyway. I can only imagine what it would cost to get holes drilled into tempered glass...


you can't drill tempered glass. It will shatter by design. I've seen a few allusions to waterjet cutting tempered glass, but most references say that it won't work (and I watched a great YouTube video showing it shattering the instant the jet hits it). You would have to have the holes cut before the glass is tempered. Your profile doesn't tell us where you live, so it's hard to guess how close you live to someplace that can temper glass.

The alternative is to make simple frames that are wide enough to bore the hinge holes and place the glass in the frames. These won't have to match the veneer of the other doors. You could even paint them a solid color (like black) so there's no suggestion you were trying to match the veneer.

Various web searches suggest that code does NOT require tempered glass in this situation. After all, you see kitchen cabs with all sorts of specialty fluted, seeded, and patterned glass that is not available as tempered or laminated safety glass. That said, it's still a good idea to use safety glass wherever possible.

You can probably get laminated glass cut on a waterjet. Even so, it's not clear to me how you mount the hinges since they are intended for a thicker material than the glass will be.


Thanks for the insight drstrip :thumbup: ... I had a feeling that it would be risky to try to drill into tempered glass..

I found a place here in Hawaii that would supply the doors with hinges attached, but it's not tempered glass.

I found another place that has the tempered glass, but they don't have the hinges... So I'm just trying to sort out the details.

The doors are 18"X38", and they're above a granite counter top, so safety is a big concern for me. I hate broken glass, I think I still have a tiny shard in my foot, from years back... I would never put this in my own home..

but the only hope of matching the veneer would be if I can re-use the old one... that would be tricky.. it would be doable, but very tricky!

So my ultimate goal is to find a safe way to mount a glass door that has no frame.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:26 am 
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I found Euro-style glass hinges here and here. Both require holes drilled in the glass. You won't be able to drill/cut tempered glass, but you can waterjet laminated safety glass. I found several listings for waterjet cutters in Hawaii. I think that's your best path.

PacRim tempering in Kona (no web page) claims to be the only tempering facility in Hawaii and "ships to all islands." You'd still want a waterjet to cut the holes before tempering.

Laminated glass is as safe, if not safer than tempered, since it stays together when it breaks. There might be slight differences in appearance between tempered and laminated, but which is preferred is a matter of personal taste.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Thanks again drstrip, I'll look into the laminated glass too. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:36 am 
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Wow... time flies...

I'm kinda ashamed to admit that this hasn't been solved yet.

I appreciate all you guys' input, but I'm having a real hard time getting a local glass shop to even take this job on.. I think everyone is scared, as am I. The liability...

If I could get laminated glass, I would be fine with it... but it's not available.. and the guy at the glass shop said that laminated glass would need a frame to keep the atmosphere from creeping in and messing it up too.

The guy at the glass shop also said that tempered glass is very vulnerable to any blow to the edge, so that's a consideration too.

So we've gone back to considering putting wood back on the vertical sides of the glas, but that's not a simple solution either...

If I make new rails, I'll have to re-use the the existing veneer to get a perfect match. To be honest, this is an intimidating task... but it might be worth it if I can pull it off.



here's the finish that flows thru the whole kitchen...

Image


And here's the problem...

Image

Image


Last edited by Jim2 on Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:37 am 
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Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:42 am 
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... if I have to, I can peel the plywood down to the last few veneers with a fine chisel. But that's a risky operation.. There are six pieces, and if "even one" of them doesn't survive the operation, it's game over!

It's a tedious task...

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:57 am 
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I had to trim one of these doors once, and after experimenting a little bit, I found that shellac made the perfect color on the new edge-banding.. but that was just edge band... It might not be "perfect" on the faces, when compared to the rest of the existing....

The sheen will be important too, and that's the part that intimidates me. The existing finish must be some kind of poly, because lacquer thinner and denatured alcohol has no affect on it.

I'm sure I could get it "close", but I want it to be "perfect".


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:08 am 
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...if it wasn't so cupped, I would just remove the veneer with my tablesaw...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:19 am 
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Jim,
Termites are in your kitchen cabinet doors? :shock:
I would be very worried about where else they might be.
matching color might be the least of your problems.
Zulu

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:35 am 
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What Zulu said :shock:

You could use the table saw to get close then finish up by hand and I think you may have a little more control with a belt sander when you get close.

Just my 2 cents.

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If man made it, I can fix it.
If God made it we can pray for it.

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Always remove the zero clearance insert before you tilt the blade DAMHIKT


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Jeff Fox wrote:
What Zulu said :shock:

You could use the table saw to get close then finish up by hand and I think you may have a little more control with a belt sander when you get close.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks Jeff, but I never had a lot of love for belt sanders. To me, it would be too easy to ruin it. I'd rather use chisels myself. But to each his own I guess.. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:34 pm 
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Zulu wrote:
Jim,
Termites are in your kitchen cabinet doors? :shock:
I would be very worried about where else they might be.
matching color might be the least of your problems.
Zulu


Thanks Zulu, and I hear you! But I'm sorry if I gave the wrong impression, it's not my own kitchen...

I'm a carpenter by trade, and I've seen what termites can do. They create a lot of work for me....

This one here is nothing... It's just "dry wood" termites... there was only about a dozen of them.. It would take these guys years to eat a pound of wood... but yeah, it still deserves a thorough inspection, even if someone else already "inspected" it. :thumbup:

We have "formosan" termites out here, and a big colony can eat 100 lbs of wood per day! Those buggahs are mean! I already learned how to find them, and I also know that by the time you find them, it's just the "tip of the iceberg"... and even that might be an understatement!

So anyways, back to the point of this whole thread.. I finally got a bid approved for the glass doors. The glass shop is gonna charge about 730 to supply the doors, hardware and all. All I'll have to do is install them.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:40 pm 
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ps, Jeff Fox, I really like this line in your sig!

"If man made it, I can fix it.
If God made it we can pray for it."

That is so true!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:42 pm 
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pps Jeff, what do you have against Teak?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Way back when I spent $200 on some Teak and $250 replacing all the tools I burned up cutting it. I think it was only one board in particular did the damage, but it really soured me. :D

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If man made it, I can fix it.
If God made it we can pray for it.

Lessons I have learned:
NEVER MAKE ANYTHING OUT OF TEAK
Always remove the zero clearance insert before you tilt the blade DAMHIKT


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Jeff Fox wrote:
Way back when I spent $200 on some Teak and $250 replacing all the tools I burned up cutting it. I think it was only one board in particular did the damage, but it really soured me. :D

heheheh, I only made one thing out of Teak, and I don't remember it being all that bad... But that was a long time ago, maybe I forgot. :D

...It's a bench that lives outside by a pool, in a rainforest, and the thing is still holding up to this day, even though it's all silver now... The apron has finger joints at the corners, and the glue has failed, but the shape still holds it together and the wood is fine. I'll try to get a picture of it next time I'm over there. I think it's about 20 years old by now.

The worst wood I ever worked with, by far, was called "Extreme Deck". They sold it as an Ipe substitute at a local supply place out here. I asked the guy what kind of wood it was, and he said it's some kind of Eucalyptus that came from the forests of Georgia. There were several different sub-species all mixed together, but they all pretty much looked similar, and they all had similar properties. That wood was a nightmare! It was an "ox blood red" color, but the sawdust came out bright green like some kind of toxic waste! The dust made my lips and inner forearms numb.. And it was hard on blades too! Sanding it was like sanding a friggin rock... Once it's done, it's a good product, but I can really see why they never bothered to use this wood in the past. 8)


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