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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:56 am 
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This is just another example of how lawyers and our justice system can rule in the favor of stupidity!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/25130/man-wins-big-money-in-tablesaw-lawsuit

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:14 am 
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Can you say "contingency fee?" Consider what share are the lawyers to get in the big NYC settlement - 33% is pretty standard, though some personal injury work goes at 50.

Good thing they're not designated "fat cats" or the pay czar would take the money back....


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:05 am 
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FD_Cox wrote:
This is just another example of how lawyers and our justice system can rule in the favor of stupidity!

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/25130/man-wins-big-money-in-tablesaw-lawsuit


These kinds of suits are common every time there is a technological improvement. The other articles mention airbags in cars kicking off a similar run of lawsuits, and when I worked for Boeing, I was part of a couple teams that worked on improvements to the airplanes as a result of new tech. An interior flammability issue, and an escape slide improvement, among others.

Any time a company improves their product you get the same thing. There's even a body of law that pertains, as well as various union rules, company policies, etc. Sometimes a company will keep a improved product off the market just to avoid the hassles. I'm pretty sure that's one of the reasons that Ryobi, etc. decided against it.

There are many thousands of similar examples - gun trigger locks, safetybelts, etc., etc. Once people get the notion they can be rewarded for irresponsibility the flood gate are opened. And there are some folks who do this sort of thing deliberately, along with platoons of lawyers who will take the case.

Btw, I fully expect there to be some suits filed to force similar tech to be incorporated in other power tools fairly soon. How about that router, bandsaw, planer, jointer, drill press, portable circ saw, dremel, scroll saw, etc., etc. They can all bite, right? :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:30 am 
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Hey Guys,

I think that we, of all people, should know better than to pre judge a work in progress. I expect that an appeal has already been filed. The lawyers (and justice system) aren't done with this one yet.

Tom

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:30 am 
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Oh boy! Who ever knew that saws could chop off fingers!

Hopefully the appeals court has a brain detecting device and makes a reasonable decision.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:24 am 
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Sure glad I already have a TS. Once they are all forced to make Saw Stops the price is going to be prohibitive except for the wealthy. I just hate Lawyers and Judges who believe that people are not responcible for their own actions. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 12:29 pm 
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Read my signature lines. Pay close attention to the second one.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:45 pm 
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I hate seatbelts :cry: :cry: :D :D :wink: :wink:

Sometimes technology catches up with us.

Do I like ambulance chasers? No I do not.

Do I like devices that save me from myself, and more importantly save my loved ones from harm? YES I DO.

I would install a "Saw Stop" on my saw in a heart beat if there was a retro kit.

As it is I wonder if I am doing myself a disservice not buying a saw with one on it.

Yes it will add to the price, but it would be worth it in my humble opinion.

eric


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:48 pm 
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This is why several good European power tools are not available in the US any more.
In large part why medical cost are so high.
I was once on the defendant end of a law suit some one failed to clean or have there furnace checked in 3yrs that backed up and spilled Co in to there house some how I did win.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:51 am 
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eric wrote:
Do I like ambulance chasers? No I do not.

Do I like devices that save me from myself, and more importantly save my loved ones from harm? YES I DO.


Going to digital dispatch was great. At times we could even beat the lawyers and the press to an accident scene.

Would you feel a bit differently if you knew how much more some of those cost and how little extra protection they provide? Deer ran into the wife on the right front quarter, blowing all the side curtain airbags in addition to creasing the hood and fender. The bags were over half the expense of the repair.

Might just be me or my family, but neither the daughter nor I have been to a scene where the side curtains seemed to have helped. T-bone collisions are mostly critical with or without. The Nader bars were a big help in T's, but they sure make it tough to pop a door as we used to. We go for the roof, but with the new bags, we have to be sure to disarm what may feed us the jaws if they aren't properly done.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:25 am 
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The technology still has issues. I called sawstop myself to inquire. I would not hesitate to own one. But, they could not tell me if cutting through a grub (larva of the mesquite boring beetles) would trigger the device.

If this were forced on us because of an accident before it's ready, that would be a shame too.

I think the technology needs to be available wide-spread. It only makes sense. I just hate thought of the courts forcing it.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 7:54 am 
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Woodworking has its inherent dangers. That's why the brain has to be switched on at all times, and all reasonable safety precautions used.

If you don't want to run the risk of damaging your fingers in a table saw, the 100% effective cure is to not use one.

From some of the folks I have spoken to, my guess is that hand saws will catch on again if the price of table saws gets too far out of hand! :-)

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:45 am 
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[quote="Scotman"]The technology still has issues. I called sawstop myself to inquire. I would not hesitate to own one. But, they could not tell me if cutting through a grub (larva of the mesquite boring beetles) would trigger the device.

quote]

Holy cow, as a mesquite lover I hadn't even thought about that one....though all my recent mesquite is kiln dried and the little suckers are dead- I kindof miss cutting into a piece of wood and seeing a pencil sized worm shrink back into a hole ;)

Sersiously though- I stand somewhere in the middle on this one-- if my kids were learning woodworking in school when they were older would I want sawstop technology to be mandatory? Heck yes I would.

I don't know if lawsuits are the way or if mandatory reform (such as riving knife technology) is the way but I do know that if there is not an outside agency stepping in through lawsuits or regulations that companies will not add safety devices onto their products just to make them safer-it just isn't cost effective.

I'll take the safer approach with the knowledge that if my kids enjoy woodworking enough to buy a tablesaw that the sawstop technology will probably be in place in 15 years or so and any saw they buy would probably have it in place-- along with a riving knife and dust collection.... because without government regulation these things would never have happened

Lawrence


Last edited by Lawrence on Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:39 am 
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The problem with "safety" technology is that is creates an atmosphere of complacency and reliance on the machine to take the place of safety mindedness. If a shop teacher tells his students "don't worry it's got sawstop", then what incentive is there for him or the students to use their brains?

Accidents happen, yes. And safety equipment helps, but it should never be relied upon to substitute for proper use of equipment of any kind.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2010 4:26 pm 
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I feel that we should still practice good safety no matter how "safe" any power tool is made. That said, I also don't agree with someone trying to make millions on a safety device, that only they can provide, by forcing legislation. It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:01 am 
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NB George.
Guess I was lucky I only mentioned seat belts, not air bags...

I am sure they put you at risk in your emergency jobs.
Over here we have lots of LPG cars, and they are also interestting after they
come unstuck somewhere along the road.


Im sure I am not expressing my self overly well, but all in all safety features are good things. Yes they do breed complecency, but so do really high speed limits.

Don't know any answers other then "stay safe!"

eric


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:21 am 
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eric wrote:
NB George.
Guess I was lucky I only mentioned seat belts, not air bags...



Yep, cheap, easy, effective, but they're "active" restraints, sort of like using wooden fingers in the form of pushsticks and featherboards on our tablesaws. A proper seatbelt is more effective than driving a box of balloons.

In order to save the people who haven't proper respect for the machine or the risks involved in operating it, we must have "passive" restraints or passive safety devices at great depth and expense. Proper five-point harnesses would do it all, just as proper respect for the saw.

Sort of a reverse Darwinism, isn't it?


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