WWA Info Exchange

OK, folks, I promised to document my experience buying a CNC router, so I'll report as I go along. I'm in the US - other countries are no doubt very different.

Step 1: Picking your router.
There are a number of Chinese sources that advertise on eBay. I'm sure you can find others by the usual search means. I looked at a couple of vendors and checked them against discussions on CNCZone.com, a very active forum for the CNC community. I found that a large fraction of the buyers of the CNC routers were in Australia. Apparently between high tariffs and high shipping costs from Europe, the cost of a machine from Italy or Germany is prohibitive for all but the most demanding customers. I ended up selecting JCUT based on a variety of reports.

Now that you picked your vendor, pick the machine. JCUT makes a range of machine sizes. I was originally thinking I was going to go for a 4x4' machine, but after thinking about what I was really going to use it for, and how much space it would take, I backed off to a 2x3' workspace, which will cover about anything I can imagine. In fact, most stuff will fit in 2x2' or even smaller, but I do have a couple of projects in mind that will use the 2x3' workspace, so that's what I'll get. With JCUT you have to pick from ball-screw vs. rack and pinion for the xy axes. Everyone has their own opinion of the advantages and disadvantages. Typically a ball screw will give a more accurate machine, a rack and pinion will give faster traverse speeds. At least for JCUT, the ball-screw is cheaper by a couple of hundred bucks. Since I really don't need the fast traverse, I'd rather pay less and have more accuracy. The stock spindle is 1500kW water-cooled. Upgrading to 2.2kW (3hp) is about $200 more. An air-cooled spindle adds $330 on top of that. The 2.2kW spindle takes 1/2" bits while the 1.5kW doesn't, so that made the choice easy. I stuck with water-cooled - probably will regret that. Finally you have to pick which controller interface you want. There's the standard NC-cut or some such. For another $400 you get Mach3, which seems to be the most widely used by everyone building machines. US written and supported software vs. some mysterious thing. For $500 over the base, you can get a "DSP" controller. This means that you don't need an external PC to run Mach3, but have blackbox software. I went with Mach3 based on it's widespread use and the recommendation of a knowledgeable friend. I think there may be an option for more z-travel, but 6" seemed plenty for me.

OK, now that you've made those choices, there's some room to negotiate price. Don't just buy as-is on eBay. (not even sure if you really can). I had a number of email exchanges with "Mandy" at JCUT who helped a lot in configuring the machine. The sticker price as describe above is $3450(US) to my nearest port (Los Angeles). I haggled and got them to include trucking all the way to Albuquerque, which would cost me at least $400. Payment terms were 50% to start machine build, 50% due on shipping. As it ended up, I paid the $400 Mach3 upgrade via PayPal immediately, which started the machine build. About 10 days later I got a photo of what was said to be "my" machine, asking for the balance (which was 100% - $400, since I was never asked for the 50%) to ship. I paid that via wire.

Step 2: Shipping
Pay careful attention here. If you screw this up, you could face BIG fines from Customs, possibly much more than the machine is worth.
You MUST file an ISF10+2 form BEFORE the ship leaves port. Failure to do so results in fines starting at $5000!
But you can't file an ISF10+2 by yourself. It must be filed electronically and you can't get an account. There are various firms that have web-based services to do this. The alternative, which is probably a better idea, is to work with a broker. The customs and border patrol website has long lists of registered brokers for each port. Before you can have them file the ISF10+2 they need to verify your identity, which can take a couple of days. In the case of the broker I used, they wanted a scan of my social security card (not just the number) plus my driver's license. Get this done in advance - you don't want to be in a panic situation like I was, trying to gather, scan, and email the required documentation.
OK, I'll assume you got this taken care of EARLY.
A few days after making the final payment I received an email containing all the information to complete the ISF10+2. Shipping date (ie, ship leaving port) was only THREE DAYS OUT. That's why it's important to be all set up to file your ISF10+2. This info included the container #, the place where the container will sit on the ship, etc. You will forward this info to the broker you have already established a relationship with. The broker I used told me this will cost $30, but I haven't seen the bill yet.

If your machine costs less than $2500 excluding shipping costs, you can bring it in under "informal entry" rules. This greatly simplifies the paperwork and eliminates the need for a bond. If you need a bond, your broker can handle it. If this is a one-time deal, you get a one-time bond (I was told $65). If you're going to make a habit of this, you can get bonded for the year (and you're probably insane, too).

OK, that's where we stand. My router loads tonight (my time, it's daytime in China already). It will make a stop in 3 days in Shanghai, then arrive in LA on Sept 5 if it's on schedule. At that point I need to clear customs. According to what I've read about informal entry rules, the trucking company should be able to sign for it as the consignee for me. If that doesn't work, the broker will clear it for a fee that will be cheaper than my flying to LA (Actually, I might get my nephew who lives in LA to clear it as long as the informal entry rules apply.)

More in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the information, I will be watching this closely.

Regards!
Ed

The router landed in Los Angeles (actually Long Beach) on schedule. It took about a week for the container to make it's way to the x-ray facility where apparently all containers are x-rayed to make sure they don't contain contraband or dirty bombs. Almost another week to get the crate out of the container and to clear Customs. In order to clear Customs I had to provide the broker with a Bill of Lading, packing list, and an invoice for the sale, to provide to Customs. These were all promptly provided by the vendor.

The shipment cleared Customs last Thursday. At this point in addition to the price of the machine I've paid $92 in duties (4.2%), and about $225 in broker's fees. Some of these could probably be avoided if you live close enough to the port of entry to handle the process yourself. I don't, so it seems unavoidable (and probably money well-spent in terms of hassle avoided).

Current status: I'm waiting for the vendor's agent to arrange the pickup by the trucking company. The machine will be trucked to the freight depot in Albuquerque. Home delivery can be a real hassle since the truck will give you at most 12 hours or so notice of delivery and you HAVE to be there to unload. Even if you arrange lift-gate service, you still end up with a very heavy crate in the driveway. (And in my case, that driveway would be 125 miles from the final destination). I'll pick up the crate at the warehouse, where they will use a forklift to load it into my truck. When I get it back here to the ranch, I can unload it with my skidsteer (that's the generic name for what most folks call a "Bobcat", which is a brand name). I can unload it right into the shop, though angling it into position is going to be a task.

BOY! You must want that machine BAD!! All of that seems like a lot of trouble to go to. But, I hope everything works out well for you and the machine is all that you hope it will be. Good luck.

Rog

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I spent most of my money on woodworking
tools and beer, the rest I just wasted.

All that work? Of that list of items in the previous post, all I did was forward an email from the vendor to the broker, and send a check. Somebody else has done all the actual work. But yes, I really do want that machine.

OK, it's here, sitting in the back of my truck


Tomorrow is the challenge of unloading (550 lbs).

Here's the rundown on costs:

Router with Mach3 upgrade, including shipping $3400.

Port-related costs. I'm not positive, but I suspect these are pretty much unavoidable.

UNSTUFFING FEE $50
HANDLING FEES $65
PALLET MAKE FEE $20
PIER PASS / CLEAN TRUCK $17.28
CHASSIS $5.76
VACIS EXAM FEE $14.50

Broker related costs:

CONSUMPTION ENTRY FEE 85.00
IMPORT SECURITY FILING 30.00
DUTY, SUBJECT TO LIQUIDATION 96.88
SINGLE ENTRY BOND FEE 45.00
ISF BOND 65.00

Consumption entry means the item imported will be used (consumed) in the US. This was a charge by the broker
The import security filing is the ISF mentioned above. Pretty hard to avoid this fee (to a broker) unless you're going to import enough stuff to get your own ISF filing account, which is probably impractical.
Duty is the customs duty on the machine. 4.2% in this case.
Single entry bond fee: When you import an item, you must post a bond to insure the duties are paid. You can buy a one-year bond for something like $200 if you were going to do this regularly. You might be able to find a lower price bond, I have no idea where to look.
ISF bond - this really surprised me. It obviously relates to the ISF-10+2 form. I'd bet there's a lower price annual alternative, but that doesn't help.

The router was delivered to a bonded warehouse, which wasn't necessary since it had cleared customs already. This added another $50 handling. But there I learned that I could have had the router shipped to Albq under bond, and then cleared it myself. I might have been able to bring it under "informal entry" (explained in a previous post) in that case, which would have eliminated the need for posting the entry bond, and possibly the ISF bond.

Next post in a day or two showing the excitement of getting the crate off the truck without the benefit of a forklift.

OK, here we are unloading.

Pick up the crate, then drive the truck out from under it so I don't have to drive around with the load way up in the air on uneven ground.


Then up the driveway into the garage


And here's what's inside the crate:

Very nice experience. Thank you for sharing

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Hello robertheart, welcome to the forum and the rest of us.

Post often, we don't bite,,,
well not hard anyway.

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Sean

Countin' flowers on the wall,
that don't bother me at all,
smokin' cigarettes and watchin' Captain Kangaroo,
Now don't tell me I've nothin' to do.

Second recipient of the D'oh Award. 4-13-08

Give us an update on your CNC and pics too.

Ski season is really getting in the way - Taos had a huge storm about two weeks ago, pushing the base over 80". First time in years.
That said, I've got something coming that first requires I write some Python code to generate a tool path that no CAM software I have (or know of) will produce. I'll have pics when that's done.

I know that area has alot of snow this winter so enjoy your sking, snow will melt soon.

What are you going to make with that new machine??? If you don't mind saying ?
Thanks

This thread is representative of my interest in the machine. In particular, I am exploring how to use the machine to create objects that would be hard, if not impossible to make otherwise. For now I'm focused on surface textures combined with form that are hard to produce with more traditional methods. I'm not particularly interested in carved photos or signs, though I've made a couple of the latter for various purposes (and they're so easy and quick to do, too.)

A couple of other early projects appeared in this thread.