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 Post subject: The Lacey Act - info
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:23 am 
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There have been some changes in this 1900 law, that will effect gunstocks, furniture, and many other wood products. Here's a presentation on the law. Note that if you are found in possession of something that is subject to the Lacey Act your wood, furniture, knick-knacks, etc. will be confiscated and you will be fined $250 even if you unknowingly engaged in prohibited conduct and practiced Due Care. The penalties go up from there.

http://www.mtc.com.my/issues/images/sto ... clarke.pdf

The Act: http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/Lacey.pdf

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Last edited by Gene on Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:31 am 
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Gene, your first link went to a "no page" message.

The second, on the Act itself didn't mention trees or woodstocks. I'm sure I missed something. Can you repost w/ a bit more explanation.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Olepeddler wrote:
Gene, your first link went to a "no page" message.

The second, on the Act itself didn't mention trees or woodstocks. I'm sure I missed something. Can you repost w/ a bit more explanation.

Thanks
Sorry, my bad. The thing is that anyone in possession of wood that they can't prove was legally obtained in the context of CITES, and the Lacey Act, will likely have their wood confiscated and will be fined. This includes any furniture, or other products you have in your possession. The Act requires traceability from the logger to the end user. Read the Enforcement section of the Act. Very scary. Usually this happens at National borders, where people have had personal possessions confiscated because it happened to have some bit of wood in it that violates the Act. In my case, I have some of the woods of concern in my shop that I'd be hard pressed to defend, even tho I bought them from normal legitimate sources, so I'd probably go to jail if they raided me.

http://www.mtc.com.my/issues/images/sto ... clarke.pdf

Also from J. Gibson McIlvain Company :
http://www.mcilvain.com/the-lacey-act-h ... al-lumber/

There's also a number of stories in the press about it - Google News search on Gibson or Ebony.

And another from PopWood: http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodw ... otic-woods

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:02 pm 
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When they start the door to door search for wood products I will hire a lawyer.
I hope they don't over look illegal firearms and drugs and possible child abuse and stolen items that they may come across during the search. It will take awhile before they get to me.

Rog

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Rapid Roger wrote:
It will take awhile before they get to me.


Not anymore Roger, I just called you in............ :D :D

Your friend :shock:

Vicki

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:56 pm 
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Rapid Roger wrote:
When they start the door to door search for wood products I will hire a lawyer.
I hope they don't over look illegal firearms and drugs and possible child abuse and stolen items that they may come across during the search. It will take awhile before they get to me.

Rog


Hey, if you're gonna get busted for Rosewood, might as well go whole hog. :mad:

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Hmmm, this is one of the things I've been wondering about. We use a small piece of rosewood or cocobolo in some of the stuff we make. We haven't bought any in probably more than 15 years, this is just stuff left over from earlier work. I know the source of some of it but I'm sure I don't have records any more. I think the rosewood was bought more then 25 years ago from Paxtons in Kansas City but I'm not sure they're even there anymore, if they are it's what's left from when Hogan bought them out. I would actually prefer to switch to a domestic wood but we have this stuff. Are we just supposed to burn old stock?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:44 pm 
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they will just have to pry it from my cold dead fingers. LOL. As far as I know, I have less then 1 bd ft of bloodwood; I believe that is what it is.

Wayne

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:58 am 
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I'm sorry, Gene, I almost fell asleep twice while trying to read through all the gobble-de-gook of this Lacey Act thing. The only vague reference I got out of it was to 'plant' material. Obviously I'm not reading it right. Where and how does it address the issue of destruction of the rain forests?

I'm as appalled as anyone with the depletion of the planets wilderness and rain forest. I'm careful to buy, when/if needed, certified sustainably harvested wood products. But as responsible woodworkers I think we should be able to make our voices heard in the market place once we've raised the awareness. It all seems to me to be yet another case of over zealous government at the expense of public enlightenment.

I would think they've got a lot more pressing issues to deal with.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:18 am 
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Dennis, the Lacey Act itself does not list specific species, etc. It is deliberately vague. A plant, in the context of the Act, is anything that grows out of the ground. It is also the basic law for controlling trade in all endangered, etc., species from snail darters to elephants and birds. It provides the basic authority for other laws and regulations that in turn provide authority for seizing woods that are not properly documented, starting with the country of origin. The US Customs service gets in on the act, as well as Commerce, Fish and Wildlife, and DOJ. It does not address destruction of rain forests. It is only concerned with illegal harvesting, which is a decision that is made by the country of origin. Because of international treaties, we ( and other countries who signed up)are then obligated to stop importation of whatever species are designated by the country of origin. Not all countries signed up to those treaties, however.

The fundamental intent of the Lacey Act and subsequent amendments is to stop the trade in so called exotic woods that have not been "sustainably" grown or farmed for that purpose. It assumes that, if you have a piece of ebony for example, you are guilty until proven innocent, and your ebony will be confiscated at the very least. Some deal, huh.

All that said, many source countries use this as a way of generating income. Similar to state owned oil and mining operations. That is exactly what Madagassar did. All of their timber is now the property of the State, and the State will sell it off on the international market and keep the revenue from it. They say that it will be used for the benefit of their citizens, but I rather doubt that, given that it is a dictatorship as a result of a 2009 coup.

PS: Here's a plain English description of how the Lacey Act is implemented and functions. http://www.illegal-logging.info/uploads ... tJan10.pdf

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