WWA Info Exchange

Folks,
my wife has been working for a vendor at a local indoor craft show/flea market venue for a while now. That's worked out 'OK' but let's be frank here... she's working long hours for someone else.

We had a discussion when I got home from Lodge last night, and have pretty much decided to invest in some lumber and a couple of new tools (blades for my BS, and a set of cauls) for the shop and I'm going into production mode making end grain cutting boards which she will then sell for ourselves (vs someone else's product and so forth). I'm well aware of the pitfalls, of making my hobby into a job, but I've actually been thinking of that for some time on a larger scale anyway, as an option for when we move to VA.

Naturally this led to the 'how much to charge' question... I've done a bit of looking around online and found that some vendors are charging between $25 to $200 (depending on the size of board, species involved etc...) My plan is to make an initial 'run' and empty out my shop of a bunch of maple which I have on hand, some of my cherry stock, and add in about 30 bf of walnut plus some Ash from my favorite vendor to make the initial inventory.
Lori wants at least 50 to 100 boards of various sizes from 'cheese boards' up to full on chef's boards (2 to 3" thick and priced accordingly (think eye candy for the booth) and designs before we even set up a booth somewhere.

I'm also planning on making some knife blocks and wooden spoons, all things I can make from the 'off cuts' and maximize the raw materials.

Wish us luck, expect to see a bunch of boards in process down the road.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

I certainly do wish you luck and hope the very best for you both. If I were you I would make things as simple as possible until you get a feel for the desires of the customers.... Also, keep VERY good records of all your business expenses for when the tax man cometh...

I'm not sure I would make the sheer numbers you are talking about for a first batch... I can't imagine selling that many in a 2 or 3 week period, and if you do you will know there is a demand and then you can adjust your production accordingly. (plus making 50-100 of ANYTHING in one batch no longer becomes even just work, it becomes tedium... (example- my 50 identical mesquite pens a while back) It would also really stink to make 30 of one type that doesn't sell much and 5 of another that does and be stuck with the 30.... customers are fickle that way sometimes.

As for how much to charge-- do the math-- and there is no easy "catchall" formula... though there are tools that can help you decide. I have the book "the woodworker's guide to pricing your work" and though it is by no means a complete reference, it has some good tips... this is one place that doing your homework is pretty darned important IMHO.

There are others here on the site that can advise you much better than I as they are already in the biz, -- I'll leave that to them and just say good luck and we are all pulling for you!

Lawrence

Lawrence,
thanks my friend, when I say '50' to 100, in order to 'compete' in the local economy, I'm planning on having a Bunch of 'smaller' boards which I would be able to make economically/easily by making a larger blank and getting 3 or 4 finished pieces out of it. The 'cheese board' size from my recent posts... 7x9" and about 3/4 to 4/4 thick. Not something I can run through the planer individually, but something I can cut down from a larger board. Those would be easy to crank out in volume. I'd say 40 to 50% of the initial run would be a variety of patterns of that sort of board, various combinations of the local domestics with some exotics thrown in for spice...
so, out of 100 boards, perhaps 10 would be Large 12x24x3 (and priced accordingly) show boards,30 would be mid sized (12x16x2) 40 would be cheese board and another 20 would be oddball shaped (curved, circular, footed) etc...

I could easily crank those out in a month to 6 weeks, working evenings and weekends and not get board, er bored with them.

I'm planning on flexing my creative muscles too. Over on Lumberjocks there are a ton of designs that I'd love to emulate, and put my own spin on.


oh, and as for the tax man... the CFO was an accountant in a former life I'm going to simply be the production guy, she'll be the bookeeper for this venture, as well as the marketing. Thankfully she's very good at both of those aspects.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

Ned,

Think about nice add-ons that differentiate yours from those of others. My wife and I found a cheese board that had an integrated wire slicer. The handle is a "C" shape that has a straight piece fitted in a hole in the side of the board and thin piano wire attached to the other end and tensioned to a screw on the back making a "slicer" for use on cheese and thin meat products.

All of our friends who have seen these exclaim about them and I don't see them around much. You might want to look into finding the hardware to build these.

Caleb

Caleb,
I was at a friend's house and they had two boards similar to that, although they were marble, I had a ton of fun at the party that night chopping the brick 'o cheese into teensy bitesize pieces with them. I'll look into finding the source.


Bingo! found a source for just the replacment wires... Now to design my own 'arm'.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

Well Ned, it sounds like you are well on your way. I don't have much experience with cutting boards, small business or wwing as a business. I would though, recomend that you might consider diversifying your product line some, somewhere along the way. Unless you're planning on hitting the road with your cutting boards, eventually every one around you who wants one, will already have your cutting boards. Maybe sprinkle in some boxes from time to time, or napkin holders, chip/dip bowls, etc. By varying your product line, you not only keep them coming back, you'll keep your own intrest in the manufacturing up.

One other thing that would be really cool, would be to make a combination cutting board with a round bowl shaped depression in one coner, then supply an Ulu Knife with it. These are Great for cutting salads, dicing onions and any other spherical fruits and vegies, and Ulu Knives are a lot of fun to use.
http://www.eagleriverknife.com/ulu.html

Other than that, let me offer my best wishes for success.

_________________
Frank
WWACOAUX#1
"I love the smell of Sawdust in the morning, it smells like, victory."
WWA'ers I've met: Popeye, Ed Avery, Stephen Wolf, Rockfish, Rodedon

Ooooh, another idea... cool, thanks! I can see it now.. chucking a 'small' board up on the lathe...turning the depression... or better yet, making a handfull of those depressions and gluing them up into the board.

I've also thought about approaching a couple of local restaurant supply houses with some products, seeing if they'll deal wholesale with a local vendor. that sort of thing.

As for hitting the road. I'm a road warrior at heart, and while I'd Rather Not have my wife on the road to expand our market, we may have to hit the trail. It all depends on how far we choose to take this.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

Yep, good luck with this. Practically any shape you can imagine will get folks attention: States, fish, wine bottle, cheese wedge, even that gal on truck mud flaps.

_________________
I bring to life, I bring to death:
The spirit does but mean the breath:
I know no more. (Tennyson, In Memoriam)

Yeah Gene LIKE THIS!!!!!!




See ""

One thing you MUST buy before you go any further.

Liability insurance.

It's cheap (relatively) and gives you protection against claims of injury should one of your boards break or cause damage in some manner (botulism?). If you're doing this from home, talk to your home owners insurance guy. In some cases home businesses VOID the homeowners insurance policy. Plus, a rider or umbrella policy attached to your existing policy covers everything and is likely cheaper than a stand alone policy.

I like woodworking too much to ruin the experience by making it a job. Fairs are fine, because I go when I'm ready, sell what I have, then go home. I rarely take orders, save for some regulars.

George,
I'm looking at it this way, I can Make something that someone wants, I would rather be a Producer than a service provider (which is essentially what my 9-5 job is). My wife is excellent at the half of the equation where I'm weakest (marketing and dealing with the public). it will help my family out. If that takes my hobby to a 2nd job so be it. I haven't read it recently, but I'm reminded of the book 'Do what you love, the money will follow.' Basic tenet of that book is that if you're enjoying what you do, it isn't as difficult.

It won't be the ONly thing I'm making in the shop, but if it takes off I'll be able to finish the shop a bit more. Even if it Doesn't take off as I expect it will, I'll have had a bunch of shop time and enough wedding and shower gifts to last a lifetime.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

Rod, before we sell anything or set up a booth, I'll make sure we have coverage. I've faced a tall lawsuit before. I managed to 'win', but that's another story.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

As most of you already know, I and my GF own an indoor flea market. We were making wwing products to sell in our own booth. I had mantel clocks, bird houses, cutting boards: she had various sconces with mirrors, and other wwing products. Well, after two years, I sold two clocks, she sold a couple of birdhouses, and none of the sconces, in fact they are still there. Cutting boards, were taken home and given as Christmas gifts to family.

The price in flea markets does not cater to the price one needs to cover cost and labor of the artifacts you make. That is what we experienced.

You may fare better depending on the location and the volume and status of the patrons visiting the shop.

Wayne

_________________
My father was my Mentor for my WW hobby. luv ya dad.

WW'ers I have met.
Guroo
Verna
Wooder
Paul, (brother,)
Falcon1.
Gene and his friend George

Yank,
I appreciate your voice of reason/reality. However, nothing ventured nothing gained. Lori and I are going to invest a bit, and see what sells. I/we realize that this is not a sure thing, however it is a matter of 'what can we do where we keep the profits instead of a 'boss' for her. We also would be incurring the expense of materials, booth/table rental etc...

The 'trick' of course is to have something someone wants... and to price it accordingly. I'm going to aim 'below' some of the websites I've seen, but enough to offset my expenses and still make a profit. I'm not going to worry about my time, only materials. This is my way to get my wife out of her current job, which honestly isn't 'bad', but could be better.

Also,
I'm not planning on retiring on this, but rather to augment the budget a bit.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

One outlet you may not have thought of for your cutting boards is your local cabinet/lumber supplier. If they sell Boos Block stuff you may be able to talk them into your boards too.

Another source of sales could be your local cabinet guys. They can add a custom cutting board as a free gift to any of their kitchen remodels. In order to do that they have to buy YOUR boards.

I got out in the shop this afternoon, I prepped a bunch of stock. including some really great maple from my rapidly emptying wood rack
.

The rest of the maple from that lot had every 'problem' known to rough stock, warp, twist, and so on. There were two boards which were nearly 6/4 thick. They turned out nice and straight. I'm hoping to make them into two nice large maple 'show' boards. The first board will be only maple, the second will have maple and walnut



I wound up running out of glue (or nearly so). I'll stop at Lowes tomorrow. If they have a large bottle of TB III I'll pick it up, otherwise I'll just go with the medium or 'standard' size one.

This first batch will all be from 'on hand' stock. Then in a couple of weeks, I'll pick up another batch of wood. Nice thing is I'm working 4 days a week right now, so I'll be able to devote more tmie to production on my long weekends.

I got two other boards glued up as well, One cherry and walnut:



and another which is mostly cherry with a bit of maple thrown in for good measure.


These will all get the classic plane to even thickness, cut apart, flip every other board edge for edge, and re-glue

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

[quote="Ned Bulken"I wound up running out of glue (or nearly so). I'll stop at Lowes tomorrow. If they have a large bottle of TB III I'll pick it up, otherwise I'll just go with the medium or 'standard' size one. [/quote]

Personally I would go with epoxy rather than glue. Glue WILL soften under moderate heat/water while epoxy will not.

Epoxy is also food safe.

My boards from last year show no sign of delamination, and they've taken a beating in daily use. TB III seems to have held up very well so far. I'll look into epoxy though.

_________________
Ned

Madison Woodsmith.
WWACNYAUX #1
2B1ASK1

TB III on a dozen or so cutting boards going on 3 years ago...no delam yet on any except one that a family member put into the dishwasher... often....

FYI, both III and II are approved for indirect food contact and are considered (and recommended by the maker) for cutting boards
http://www.titebond.com/FaqTB.asp

Not throwing stones R. Peterson, just giving out the info I have so Ned has all the info available. You are correct that glue will soften-- I just haven't seen the softening have an impact on either my trivets or my cuttingboards after moderate use.

Lawrence